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MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Winners announced

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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Submissions until 21-02-2023 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#121

Post by sthauge »

Dreni wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 13:05 CET
Hi guys,

This was a fun song too mix, and a bit out of my "comfort zone" as this is not the usual type of music I get too work with every day unfortunately.
And I actually had quite a hard time figuring out what direction I wanted too take this song in. But in the end I decided to do a kind of top down way of mixing, and looked for inspiration at bands like Incubus and RHCP as those where the only bands I knew that were closes to this kind of music.
We are encouraged to give critics to the mixes, so we can get different views on our work and probably learn from them. I have been listen to your mix and here are my comments based on my taste and my preferences, others may differ. It's perfectly fine for you to disagree.

As for my mixing session it looks like this:

- All tracks are routed to individual seperated master auxes, which than are routed directly too the mixbus.
Drums & Bass = D&B Master
Guitars = GTR Master
Keys & Synths = KEYS Master
Vocals = VOX MASTER

On each Master Bus I do some light compression with usually the Plugin Alliance SPL Iron Compressor, Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor or the Lindell 254E. Followed by a tiny small amounts of tone shaping EQ with Plugin Alliance Amek EK200 or Lindell TE-100 or Millenia NSEQ-2 (just to remove or add what I know I will want less/more of as the mix comes along). And than finally just adding a tiny bit of console emulation, harmonic saturation or tape with Plugin Alliance Neold Big Al, Lindell Bus 80 or 50 channel, or Acustica Audio Taupe.

So I use a mix of top down mixing and direct track and aux mixing as the mix comes along.
I usually always start with the drums and bass as that is always the fundamental in my mixes. And than I add the guitars and keys. And I sort of play around for quite some time with levels and balance of the instrumental of the song before I than add the vocals at the end on top of everything - as vocals always get the main stance in my mixes.


Here is the link for my mix-challenge entry:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3clpizh0n005b ... i.wav?dl=0

Hope you guys enjoy it and feedbacks are always welcome! :-)
1. The mix is somewhat thin in general. Eg. try an EQ on the overall mix, from 250 Hz to 1.7 kHz(+ 2.6/3 dB, 500 Hz center, wide Q) could be elevated a bit and some reduction from 2 kHz to 5-6 kHz (- 2.6/3 dB, 4 kHz center, wide Q)

2. Think about placement in the nix. To me it's a bit strange to have a upfront rhythm guitar(panned left in the start) and the solo guitar that makes the melody far behind. Same when the rhythm guitar plays along with the vocals, the guitar is upfront in my ear and the vocals are in the distance. An approach is to think of a "room" and where to place every sound source in relation to each other left/right and in distance or dept. What are the goals or achievements to place'em where they are?

3. The acoustic rhythm guitar have some rather annoying chord change noises. Some are so loud that they need some automation to be reduced eg. at ca 0:28:22 and ca 1:08:08 Some noise are natural, but it must not be to annoying. This needs to be done for almost every other mixes in the competition as well.

4. Have you found any nice spot or hooks that need automation to stand out to the listeners?

Keep up the good work

Steinar :-)
Edit: corrected clock in 3.
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MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#122

Post by Mister Fox »

Points to @sthauge for giving feedback, possible ideas for improvements and starting a conversation.



Just let me quickly answer the following.
Mastemoth wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 13:19 CET
...I copied MC090_CristianCondrea_ from the name of the unpacked zip folder and then wrote in the rest. Oddly enough this file doesn't follow the naming convention and makes it somewhat illogical (to me).

...

I also understand if this is for cataloging and sorting reasons especially now when there are so many contestants. Otherwise I guess username would've sufficed.
Farlakesch wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 19:19 CET
Made the same mistake here, can't blame anyone else but myself although the double underscores are a bit unconventional I think.
I'll second Mastemoth in both recommendation and in zero excuses in doing it wrong.....
Avneesh wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2023 13:04 CET
...
@Mastemoth Yes I did the same by copying it from the zip folder
The double underscores have general layout and readability reasons. Originally it was even "_-_" (underscore, dash, underscore), but certain browsers and FTPs had issues with that. Just one underscore made things harder to read. So I opted with the double-underscores.


Please also take note, that you should not trust the ZIP File name alone. We had, and will have games where the ZIP file mentions the Song Provider (aka "client") rather than the musician, band or similar from whom we kindly got access to the multi-tracks and are allowed to work on.

Notable examples:
  • MC089 / December 2022, where Ron Stokes was the client, but participants had to mix a song from the band "Hookers and a Handgun".
  • MC070/October 2020, where the ZIP filename reflected the client (Adrian "Ady" Parzentny / Hit The Road Music Studio), but the band to mix was "Cheap Flights".
Just using MC000_ForumUsername.wav would be an option, but not only should there always be credit where credit is due (especially if something is uploaded to a remote place), but this also adds to the learning aspect of the game (how to properly name/tag files), plus the "attention to detail" aspect.



Mastemoth wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 13:19 CET
Come to think of it, why not just include a naming convention text file in the zip?
Well, I could add yet another TXT file into the ZIP, basically the TL;DR rules.
But the question then pops up: how many actually read the attached TXTs?

Either way, this is slowly going into General Gossip teritory. Please either continue there, or in #gossip-questions-answers on Discord. Thank you.




Please let us continue with feedback for the entries. And please also have an eye open for the Client Feedback. :educate:
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#123

Post by PauPeu »

Mister Fox wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 08:51 CET
Apologies for the waiting time, @PauPeu.


I also listened to your entry several times, did compare it with the released version and the clean hi-hat and "shuffled snare" patterns (chorus).

I am sorry to disappoint you, but I wouldn't call this a "subtle" rhythm change. Subtle would be, if you (for example) added a delayed reverb to as additional groove element to a snare (a common technique for electronic music), which is then merely "blended in". But your effect usage is quite present, and does alter the groove of the production.

I brought this up to our kind Song Provider as this is a bit of a tricky situation. On one hand, I have to be fair towards every participant (as host enforcing the rules). On the other hand, we are always after a "new sound" with this challenge, bolder in certain cases even.

We might know more once Mix Round 2 starts.
Ok, I understand the situation, too many participants, and maybe the change is not so subtle. Also, 90, 70, or even 30 mixes are too many to listen without losing the perspective. I may suggest that the crib you make (I guess) should be more focused on the overall sound or "good mixing" practices, I know that this could be problematic for "subjective issues". Said that I absolutely agree with the LUFS and bitrate normative.


Thanks for your time making all this happen.
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Submissions until 21-02-2023 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#124

Post by sthauge »

Eclipse wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2023 20:36 CET
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EioY9e ... sp=sharing


I had two personal goals on this mix, that I achieved:
First was to use BX Focusrite Channel Strip on every tracks and see the result of this (I've needed to reduce THR and V noise Gain for that).
Second was to build some nice echoes on chorus......
Hi Eclipse
We are encouraged to give critics to the mixes, so we can get different views on our work and probably learn from them. I have been listen to your mix and here are my comments based on my taste and my preferences, others may differ. It's perfectly fine to disagree.

1. I would like to open up the whole mix by adding 2.9 dB at 2.3 kHz and a wide Q from 500 Hz to 10 kHz

2. The lead guitar is a bit diffuse in the opening bars to be that part melody line. Doing #1 will make it better

3. The HiHat is panned rather far left. Are you a drummer? Drummers tend to put the HiHat to the left when mixing. Usually as audience we are used to hear it slightly to the right. You might have an idea behind the decision, but to me it sound strange and it could give the feeling that the HiHat is "disconnected" from the drum set or that the drummer have extremely long arms :wink: :hihi:

4. I miss some more punch and more character on the kick. The bass could also need some more character. Experiment with subtracting freq in the aerea from 140 - 200 Hz to remove "mud" and look for higher freq to emphasis the hit on the kick and character on both. Compression on the kick and/or parallel compression on the drum set. Doing #1 will make it better.

5. The acoustic rhythm guitar have some rather annoying chord change noises. Some are so loud that they need some automation to be reduced eg. at ca 00:30:23 to the right. Some noise are natural, but it must not be to annoying. This needs to be done for almost every other mixes in the competition as well.

6. Think of more automation to bring out nice spots and hooks for the listener.

Keep up the good work

Steinar :-)
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Submissions until 21-02-2023 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#125

Post by sthauge »

FromAtoZMix wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 16:48 CET
Hello everyone, here is my approach to the mix, .....

link:https://drive.google.com/file/d/18N82_r ... share_link
Hi FromAtoZMix

We are encouraged to give critics to the mixes, so we can get different views on our work and probably learn from them. I have been listen to your mix and here are my comments based on my taste and my preferences, others may differ. It's perfectly fine to disagree.

1. You vocalist lisps some places eg 01:09:23, 01:11:22, from 01:59:26 ..... there's a lot lisping or near to lisping. De-esser needs adjustments.

Keep up the good work

Steinar :-)
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Submissions until 21-02-2023 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#126

Post by sthauge »

MartialFromentin wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:27 CET
Hello!

Here is my version: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16hxmXa ... sp=sharing

I found the vocals really hard to de-ess dynamically, so I did it manually during the vocals gain automation process. :exhausted:
........
Hoping my version is not too far from the song provider's tastes... :lol:
Hi MartialFromentin

We are encouraged to give critics to the mixes, so we can get different views on our work and probably learn from them. I have been listen to your mix and here are my comments based on my taste and my preferences, others may differ. It's perfectly fine to disagree.

1. "I found the vocals really hard to de-ess dynamically", yes several had problems with that(lisping), automation or manually treatment is a good, but time consuming effort.

2. To me, the kick have a bit to thin klick type hit and is somewhat lifeless(to compressed?)

3. The bass could be a lot more present, making a good foundation.

3. The HiHat is panned rather far left and it's dry. The drums are pushed back in center and wet. To me this sound strange and it could give the feeling that the HiHat is "disconnected" from the drum set.

4. What about having the vocals a bit more upfront?

5. The acoustic rhythm guitar have some rather annoying chord change noises. Some are so loud that they need some automation to be reduced eg. at ca 00:30:23 to the left. Some noise are natural, but it must not be to annoying. This needs to be done for almost every other mixes in the competition as well.

Keep up the good work

Steinar :-)
Mixbus Pro 10.1 DAW, Kubuntu Linux 64 24.04, Stock Low latency kernel, KXstudio repos, i7-13700, 8 P-core CPU@2.1-5.4GHz, 32 Gb RAM, Intel® UHD Graphics 770, i915 driver, Zoom L12 Digital mixer/Audio interface
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Submissions until 21-02-2023 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#127

Post by MartialFromentin »

sthauge wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 17:28 CET
MartialFromentin wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:27 CET
Hello!

Here is my version: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16hxmXa ... sp=sharing

I found the vocals really hard to de-ess dynamically, so I did it manually during the vocals gain automation process. :exhausted:
........
Hoping my version is not too far from the song provider's tastes... :lol:
Hi MartialFromentin

We are encouraged to give critics to the mixes, so we can get different views on our work and probably learn from them. I have been listen to your mix and here are my comments based on my taste and my preferences, others may differ. It's perfectly fine to disagree.

1. "I found the vocals really hard to de-ess dynamically", yes several had problems with that(lisping), automation or manually treatment is a good, but time consuming effort.

2. To me, the kick have a bit to thin klick type hit and is somewhat lifeless(to compressed?)

3. The bass could be a lot more present, making a good foundation.

3. The HiHat is panned rather far left and it's dry. The drums are pushed back in center and wet. To me this sound strange and it could give the feeling that the HiHat is "disconnected" from the drum set.

4. What about having the vocals a bit more upfront?

5. The acoustic rhythm guitar have some rather annoying chord change noises. Some are so loud that they need some automation to be reduced eg. at ca 00:30:23 to the left. Some noise are natural, but it must not be to annoying. This needs to be done for almost every other mixes in the competition as well.

Keep up the good work

Steinar :-)
Hello Steinar!

First of all, thanks to take the time to give us so many feedbacks (did you listen to all the mixes?).

About the the vocals, I would be curious to know your de-esser settings, just to try on my own mix without the "laborious manual gain automation de-essing" I did.

About the drums sound, I like dry kick sound, dry toms sound, and rimshot snare sound, but I think it is because of my "metal-oriented tastes". I try to fight against, that because it doesn't fit all styles of music, but there is still some work I guess... :shrug:
About the drumkit panning, you said the same comment to Eclipse (in this regards, I am a guitarist and a drummer with "regular length arms" :grin: ). Maybe you're right about the hihat panning, but I think we just respected the overhead track to pan the drumkit (drummer point of view). Nevertheless I found your comment very interesting, and I think I will try to keep an audience point of view for all my next mixes because it is a natural panning in a live situation (we just hear what we are looking for). :tu: :wink:

For this song, I wanted to get something different from the original version: I found the drums very close and I found we don't hear the keys too much. Usually I am not a big fan of putting to much reverb, but for this one I wanted to try something with a "cosier atmosphere". That's why I wanted the lead voice not to be too upfront.

And finally, about the chord changing noise, I confess I didn't notice it during my work. I don't thank you for that comment because I will only hear this noise if I listen to my mix again, and you are the only responsible! :lol:

Good luck for the challenge!

Martial
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Submissions until 21-02-2023 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#128

Post by Eclipse »

sthauge wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 16:22 CET
Eclipse wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2023 20:36 CET
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EioY9e ... sp=sharing


I had two personal goals on this mix, that I achieved:
First was to use BX Focusrite Channel Strip on every tracks and see the result of this (I've needed to reduce THR and V noise Gain for that).
Second was to build some nice echoes on chorus......
Hi Eclipse
We are encouraged to give critics to the mixes, so we can get different views on our work and probably learn from them. I have been listen to your mix and here are my comments based on my taste and my preferences, others may differ. It's perfectly fine to disagree.

1. [...]

3. The HiHat is panned rather far left. Are you a drummer? Drummers tend to put the HiHat to the left when mixing. Usually as audience we are used to hear it slightly to the right. You might have an idea behind the decision, but to me it sound strange and it could give the feeling that the HiHat is "disconnected" from the drum set or that the drummer have extremely long arms :wink: :hihi:

4. [...]

Keep up the good work

Steinar :-)
Thanks for your review.
I generally don't agree with you in some places. Especially with rule of the drums panning.

There isn't strict rules in panning drums in modern music. There are mainly to schools: first says that you can simulate that listener sitting in front of drums, second says that listener sits behind the drums. (and what if the drummer is left-handed? ;)) But overall you're searching places where things like hi-hat or ride correspond well to the rest of the mix pan, no strict rules. (Also the hi-hat can sometimes change side during some parts. :))

Anyway thanks for your feedback!
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Submissions until 21-02-2023 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#129

Post by sthauge »

MartialFromentin wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:55 CET

Hello Steinar!

First of all, thanks to take the time to give us so many feedbacks (did you listen to all the mixes?).
Yes, I listened briefly to all mixes that was not disqualified and started to comment on those that I thought that I had something to bring to the table. As I mention in my post, I am retired and have time to do this. If it can help people to improve I happy with that.
About the the vocals, I would be curious to know your de-esser settings, just to try on my own mix without the "laborious manual gain automation de-essing" I did.
The de-essing was tricky on this one. My paid de-esser was not able to handle it, but I had a free one that did the job. Else my option was to do with automation or manually. Here's the de-esser: Image
About the drums sound, I like dry kick sound, dry toms sound, and rimshot snare sound, but I think it is because of my "metal-oriented tastes". I try to fight against, that because it doesn't fit all styles of music, but there is still some work I guess... :shrug:
About the drumkit panning, you said the same comment to Eclipse (in this regards, I am a guitarist and a drummer with "regular length arms" :grin: ). Maybe you're right about the hihat panning, but I think we just respected the overhead track to pan the drumkit (drummer point of view).
Just flip left/right on the overhead mikes and you are good to go
Nevertheless I found your comment very interesting, and I think I will try to keep an audience point of view for all my next mixes because it is a natural panning in a live situation (we just hear what we are looking for). :tu: :wink:

For this song, I wanted to get something different from the original version: I found the drums very close and I found we don't hear the keys too much. Usually I am not a big fan of putting to much reverb, but for this one I wanted to try something with a "cosier atmosphere". That's why I wanted the lead voice not to be too upfront.

And finally, about the chord changing noise, I confess I didn't notice it during my work. I don't thank you for that comment because I will only hear this noise if I listen to my mix again, and you are the only responsible! :lol:
:hihi: :tu:
Good luck for the challenge!
Thanks, good luck to you to
Steinar
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC090 February 2023 - Submissions until 21-02-2023 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#130

Post by sthauge »

Eclipse wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 13:44 CET
Thanks for your review.
I generally don't agree with you in some places. Especially with rule of the drums panning.
It's perfectly fine to disagree.
Good luck in the competition
Steinar
Mixbus Pro 10.1 DAW, Kubuntu Linux 64 24.04, Stock Low latency kernel, KXstudio repos, i7-13700, 8 P-core CPU@2.1-5.4GHz, 32 Gb RAM, Intel® UHD Graphics 770, i915 driver, Zoom L12 Digital mixer/Audio interface
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