MIX CHALLENGE - MC071 November 2020 - Winners announced

[jeffssoloband]

I had a lot of issues with phase correlation I could not fix.

Hmm. I had no correlation issues with the tracks in this mix. I actually expected some issues with the synths, but there were no real issues when I checked.

When you load the tracks in your DAW, play them with zero processing, and switch (A/B) between stereo and mono monitoring, are you losing signal?

[Oba Ozai]

Thanks. I uploaded again all the tracks on a new project and you are correct. Im going to start again to see where is that I am inserting these issues in my mix.

[Oba Ozai]

Seems this was the problem, and I bet most people dont realize this. is been a bit painful for me here, but I have learned what I never learned any other place. Thanks you all, for showing me how much more I need to learn. Easy to fool oneself when one does not have enough experience.

Does Steinberg Cubase have plugin delay compensation for the TC Electronics Powercore or Universal Audio UAD1 so it will compensate for the card’s processing latency?
Article #15181 Updated on Apr 27, 2007 at 12:00 AM
Yes. You need to turn this on in Options – Audio Setup – System, and near the bottom-right, checkmark the box labeled Plug-in Delay Compensation and hit OK. The latency is now determined and compensated for automatically.

I wonder how mixing combining plugins that run on the computer (like Waves and Voxengo) and plugins that run on devices like UAD affect the signal in this manner.

[Oba Ozai]

I would have never found about this without this place, 8.5 ms delay with just one plugin
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GJIqg9 ... sp=sharing

[Mister Fox]

Cubase does offer PDC (Plugin Delay Compensation), it been available for years (even down to Cubase SX times). And it works like a charm with UAD. I don't know what you're experiencing, but if you're having "Offsets", it could also be due to UAD plugins modeling analog equipment, therefore causing slight "Phase Shifts", which doesn't "null" a signal. Here is a conformation over on GearSlutz.



Other than that:
The "Statistics Sheet" will arrive soon

[Oba Ozai]

Greetings, you are correct, I thought most where not interested, so I did not wanted to flood the board. This is part of what I found so far.

Yes, there is a switch for that here on the top left, is enabled by default.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mE8KNl ... sp=sharing

I spoke with Greg Ondo and other people via Fb. Not everyone agrees that the automatic correction is something that works for all situations. One said it was like crossing your fingers and expecting good things to happen.

One pointed out the utility of switch on these cases, which I tried with interesting results.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NUCCan ... sp=sharing

Yes is supposed to do this you say and works fine with UAD, but not with some Waves plugins. Let me demonstrate (what I found). Things did add up because I was not careful. Because of that now I been doing a lot of experiments to learn.

The bass hold track itself was not off phase, but when some plugins are added things change a bit, even with compressors I notices panning changes. But let me show what I found with MaxxBass from Waves (that did not happened with UAD bx_subsynth).

You see the panning here on the meter, note the tracks are on dead center. notice the polarity switch on top. There should be no sound.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sDxVf5 ... sp=sharing

Here I have the plugin off (gray) but is still affecting the output balance and there is still sound.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13JfjQK ... sp=sharing

Here with the plugin out complete we see the expected results of no sound (total phase cancellation)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hJkEJf ... sp=sharing

I done this same experiment using EQ and Compressors. EQ so far nothing I can see on phase or panning, but yes on compressors, most notably from Waves.

This is an large topic that has taken me many hours of study and research, and is not done. I dont think most here be interested in what happens to my mixes. I know (because it has been said) some people would prefer to see this types of comments on another board here. I need to respect that also, I wanted to share what I have learned, but I dont want to push it too much. But I needed to answer you.

I also have a suggestion, maybe it makes sense to others. Since the forums invites from amateurs to pros maybe (just maybe) when posting the mix one should share at what level one feel or reason they are in this art and science that surely looks easier than what it really is.

And yes, thanks for making me aware of phase correlation and panning issues.

[Oba Ozai]

Just want to add, look again at this (with the UAD plugin). Cubase does detect the delay 85.ms (as seen on the window above the panning), something I dont see Waves pugins doing (yet)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dsJP8M ... sp=sharing

[Mister Fox]

I can't see any of the screenshots you've posted, since you didn't make them public in Google Drive.

But from what I gather, you are confused as to what is happening to the source material depending on the tools you use.



As an example:
Most EQ's are digital. They don't add any harmonic distortion (saturation), just "boost/cut" of certain frequencies. Depending on how they're set up, they barely change anything phase wise, if anything at all. This is a case-by-case scenario.

bx_subsynth works completely different to MaxxBass. While bx_subsynth basically generates a "re-synthesized lower octave" to the root note in question, MaxxBass is technically a highly tuned distortion device adding harmonic content "on top" of the root note, resulting in a psycho-acoustic effect giving you the impression "there is more" than there really is. One is for adding more "sub-frequency content", the other is for "better audible placement on small speakers".

Compressors can also drastically change your audio content. Not only do they influence the transients, they can furthermore "distort" the content with strong values (really fast attack/release, strong compression - aka: "Compression Distortion"). Which was the very reason why (for example) the UREI 1176 was so popular for being used as "Clean Guitar Amp" (not only because of the transistor circuit) and/or Bass Grip Machine (check out UAD's video "Tips & Tricks — 1176 Classic Limiter Collection Plug-Ins", which explains this a bit better).

All of this can have influence on your sound. Not to mention that a lot of plugins don't create 1:1 results on the output (they simulate analog equipment after all). So "nulling" isn't possible and possibly cause your confusion. Using metering tools without knowing what they really do on top of that, is only adding to that as well.



I hope this answers your initial questions and concerns. For the time being, I consider your posts as learning process, that others can also benefit from. But if things go too off-topic, I can (and probably will) move the conversation to a dedicated thread.

Happy learning

[Oba Ozai]

The links should work now. Thanks for your guidance. Makes sense what you say, I am glad im having a chance to experiment. The tracks you bring to these challenges are very interesting and present challenges to me that I never experienced before, or even though they existed. And some folks do provide some very high quality mixes. I came to this place because I was looking for tracks to practice with, none of the ones I have downloaded has been what I would call easy for me. But I have learned a lot with each one of them, Thanks again, I leave it here for now, unless someone asks.

[jeffssoloband]

I came to this place because I was looking for tracks to practice with, none of the ones I have downloaded has been what I would call easy for me.

There’s tons of stuff to practice on here: https://cambridge-mt.com/ms/mtk/

It’s not in a contest format, but sometimes you get lucky with some feedback.

P.S. I not at all discouraging you from posting your mixes here. And I hope I am not breaking any rules for posting outside sites. I’m just letting you know about some other opportunities to hone your skills. But this is all from a guy who has never even gotten to the second round lol